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Underperforming Agents and What We Can Do
Tyler Sheff:
Welcome to the Cash Flow Guys podcast. It's that time again. It's Friday morning and we are here for another episode where we are going to learn to earn. Today, folks, sometimes we say good things about realtors, y'all know that I'm a realtor. Sometimes we're honest about realtors and we talk about a lot of the shortcomings of realtors. A lot of our audience are licensed agents and we want to help them help us as investors. We want to take those agents and we want to get them into investing. After all, you're already in real estate, you might as well go ahead and get started as an investor and take it to the next level.
Today I've got a very, very, very special guest and you know I don't take guests on the show very often because I'm very picky about who comes on the show, what information is brought to you. I want to make sure that it's packed value. Today is going to blow your mind. I've got Pat Hiban with me. He is the host of The Real Estate Rockstars podcast, which is a podcast to help underachieving real estate agents become bigger, badder agents and wealth builders. Now Pat is also a billion-dollar, now I didn't say million, I said billion, that's with a ‘B”, a billion-dollar real estate agent who has over six thousand home sales under his belt. He's ranked as the number one agent worldwide for ReMax and Now Keller Williams. He's also the author of Six Steps to Seven Figures, hopefully we'll talk about that today, and A Real Estate Professional's Guide to Building Wealth and Creating Your Destiny.
Guys, here's the deal, I've had authors on the show from time to time but ask yourself this question, have you ever heard this before from any of the authors? During the first week of the book launch he went number six on the New York Times bestseller list, number two on USA Today's bestseller list, number one on Barnes & Noble and number two on Amazon. Underachiever Pat Hiban. Welcome to the show.
Pat Hiban:
Thanks Tyler. Good to be here, man.
Tyler Sheff:
Boy, you're slacking. Only six thousand, you couldn't do seven thousand? Yeah, wow. I'm glad to have you here. I've been in the game a long time. I was raised by, we didn't discuss this before we started recording, but my mom's a realtor. We talked about this a little bit actually before we hit ‘record' but I was raised by a realtor. My mom's been in the business for, I don't know, 40 years. We're at that point to where it's time for her to retire, really it's time. It's okay, you can retire.
Pat Hiban:
Right.
Tyler Sheff:
There should be an expiration date and a non-renewal. No, just kidding, I love my mom. You come from the Floyd Wickman series. Those of you listening, some of you might know what Floyd Wickman is but Floyd Wickman put out a program called Sweathogs and I know, Pat, for you that changed your life.
Pat Hiban:
Yeah, absolutely. That was the bridge for me that everything changed after I took Sweathogs. It was the direction, because most brokers and office managers are great at teaching their agents how not to lose their license. Don't steal people's escrow money and don't discriminate in any way, shape or form, but they suck at training them how to sell more houses, like what specifically to say to close the deal. Floyd Wickman was the first one to introduce that sort of brilliance to me that said, “Pat, go in there and say, ‘Are you ready to sign the contract?'” No one had ever taught me that before and it changed my life, yeah.
Tyler Sheff:
Yeah, just get in there and get it done. No tap dancing, beating around the bush.
Pat Hiban:
Yeah, right.
Tyler Sheff:
Pick up the phone now, I remember from that training, pick up the phone now.
Pat Hiban:
Right. It's almost like managers and team leaders and people are so afraid of lawsuits or disgruntled clients that they don't teach their agents aggressive sales-type skills. You know what I mean?
Tyler Sheff:
Oh, absolutely.
Pat Hiban:
They refrain from that stuff, that's at least how I felt.
Tyler Sheff:
Well yeah, and you're right. Here's the misconception, folks: I know a lot of you call into the show or you e-mail me and you ask me, “Should I get my license before I start investing in real estate? Is that going to give me a leg up? Is it going to hurt me?” Guys, getting your license as far as the license training, just like you said, Pat, it's there to keep you out of realtor jail, if there was such a place. It's to teach you how not to do things like steal. Well, mom and dad should have taught you that when you were a little kid. You're going to get that, how not to steal from people, how to play by the rules, and that's about it. That's all you're going to get out of your license training. You're not going to get next level. You're not going to learn how to write a contract. You're not going to learn how to close. You're not going to learn how to get a listing or do marketing. None of that's going to come.
Moving past that, we were just talking about this a little bit before we got started is Gino Wickman, who is Floyd Wickman's son, Gino Wickman just released a book a couple of years ago called “Traction”. Ladies and gentlemen if you have not read that book you need to read that book. It's all about building a business the right way. In real estate, ladies and gentlemen, whether you're a realtor or an investor, it's a business. Let's be realistic. It shouldn't be a hobby, that's what gets us in hot water, that's what makes us go broke. It's a business, you need to think about it like a business.
Pat, you talk about underachieving agents. What happened? Somewhere there's a disconnect. What happened from the good old Sweathog days? I remember as a kid my mom going to Sweathogs and then I went into it early on, this was back in I want to say like '99 or 2000, I went through a version of it. What do you think has happened? There's a big gap now.
Pat Hiban:
Oh man. I don't know if it's a cultural thing. I always felt like there's a disconnect of real estate agents who don't treat their job like a job. I think it really boils down to accountability. Why is it that most of the world… I was having this conversation just this morning with my personal trainer and that was, why is it that most of the world can only be held accountable by one person and one person only and that's their boss. They don't go to the gym, they don't work out, they don't eat right, but then they get to work and they're massively accountable for eight hours, they'll do whatever it takes during that eight hours and then they're massively unaccountable until the next day at that same time. You know what I mean?
Tyler Sheff:
Yeah.
Pat Hiban:
They're just not doing what they should be doing to build wealth, to be healthy, to have good relationships, whatever. I think that that's the brilliance that Floyd Wickman had with the Sweathogs, there was just this massive accountability that didn't end. It was like, if you didn't do your homework (and I'm not making this up), I think we're too politically correct in this society today. I don't know if this was in your class, I'm sure it was in your mom's, but Floyd Wickman said, “Here's your homework: You're going to call this many people. You're going to say this many things and you're going to keep going until you get an appointment.”
If you didn't, you actually had to wear a hat, a dunce cap. It looked like something out of Burger King, and on it, it said: “No, but I will.” I'll never forget that. Matter of fact, I still have that damn hat. It said: “No, but I will.” In today's society, how many women do you think are going to put on a frickin' hat for not doing their homework that says: “No, but I will.” They'll probably quit the class. You know what I mean? It worked, for me it worked. I was like, “I ain't wearing that hat.” I didn't care, I was 22 years old. That's the thing, most people cannot be accountable, I believe, in their own lives other than at their one job, at their job. Am I making any sense with this line of thinking?
Tyler Sheff:
Yeah, absolutely. To further that, people now pay other people to hold them accountable.
Pat Hiban:
Right. Yeah.
Tyler Sheff:
30 years ago the coach was on the ball field.
Pat Hiban:
Right. Yeah.
Tyler Sheff:
Nothing against coaching, I mean coaching is a great thing and it has a lot of value, I truly believe that. It actually today, I think, has 100 times more value than it did five years ago because it seems like, on your line of accountability, people become less and less accountable as time goes on. We exist in a society where everybody's a victim.
Pat Hiban:
Right.
Tyler Sheff:
It's not my fault I'm poor.
Pat Hiban:
Right. I guess the big difference is that you have to pay out of your pocket for a coach where a boss is actually paying you so it's kind of the carrot and the stick. The boss could fire you, but when you get a coach you're paying the coach to be… The coach is sort of on your payroll so only the greatest coach will be like, “Dude, you suck. You're fired. I don't want your money.” Most of them are going to keep taking your money and just be like, “Okay. It's okay if you didn't do it.” Floyd was like, “If you don't do it you've got to wear this stupid hat.” Someone would be like, “I'm not wearing that hat.” They'd be like, “Well then leave.”
Tyler Sheff:
Exactly.
Pat Hiban:
You can't get your money back.
Tyler Sheff:
Right. Exactly. We have a thing where, we're in an age where I do some marketing for a friend of mine, Larry Harbolt, who does real estate education for investors. We have people now that, this generation that we're in, they like to go copy the materials and then give them to their buddy. Instead of going and buying the materials they bootleg them, so to speak.
Pat Hiban:
Yeah, oh everything's bootlegged, yeah.
Tyler Sheff:
Oh yeah. He's got this program where you take his course once, you can come back and repeat the course as many times as you want for free, but we've had a couple of people lately that have broken the circle of trust, so to speak, and have copied the course materials and the response is, Larry's old school, he's 70 years old. He's like, “Well good. Hey, your Forever Free is canceled.” They actually have the audacity to say, “You can't do that.” Oh, really? You just stole from me, admitted it and you're telling me I can't do anything about it. Really? You're a victim? Oh my goodness. Yeah, I digress.
Pat Hiban:
Yeah, fascinating. Everything is bootlegged now. It's crazy.
Tyler Sheff:
It is.
Pat Hiban:
My kids were watching that… I have daughters, they're not into frickin' boxing and stuff, but when Pacquiao/Mayweather fight was on and somehow it came up in the conversation and they were like, “Yeah, it was in four or five rooms in the dorms.” I was like, “Oh, wait a minute. How do college kids af-, isn't it like you can only get it at a bar and if you get it it's like 300 bucks? They're like, “Oh, no. Every floor had it bootlegged on their computer.” They said the letters underneath were Asian letters or Chinese letters but we watched the whole fight. I'm like, “What?”
Tyler Sheff:
Bootlegged from China.
Pat Hiban:
Yeah, right. Everything's rip-offable now.
Tyler Sheff:
It is.
Pat Hiban:
It's funny.
Tyler Sheff:
The era has changed, Pat, I think you'd agree. I grew up in an era where being a realtor was a thing of respect, it was a badge of honor. My mother was a Century 21 agent so the gold coat meant something. Everybody was running around sporting their gold coat. It was like the PGA tour or something. I've got the jacket.
Pat Hiban:
Here's something funny, Tyler. When I became a realtor I actually did not… The first three companies I interviewed with wouldn't take me.
Tyler Sheff:
Really?
Pat Hiban:
Yeah. This was 1987 and they were like, “We don't take new agents.”
Tyler Sheff:
Wow.
Pat Hiban:
It used to be like, if you're a kid who graduates college today and you say, “I want to work for Legg Mason or Merrill Lynch.” I think that you've probably got a one in a hundred chance that they're going to not hire you. They're going to be like, “You don't have a book of business. Go start for some schmuck financial planning company and come back after you get a book.” They're just not going to hire you unless you've got massive connections and can prove yourself. That's how real estate was back in the late '80s and early '90s was you had to apply to be an agent. Now there are so many agents that if you want to go to X, Y, Z company they're going to take you. You're going to go to a company and they're not going to say, “No. You're new. We don't take new agents. We don't take part-time agents. We don't take agents that don't reach this level of criteria.” That doesn't exist.
Tyler Sheff:
What do you think has changed the public's perception, 'cause that's kind of where we're going in the next question was: The public's perception of realtors has changed. I know people that actually hide the fact that they're realtors.” I'm serious. They'll be like, “Don't tell anybody I'm a realtor.” Why? What does it matter?
Pat Hiban:
Right.
Tyler Sheff:
I don't want to be judged. In a room of investors they're like, “Don't tell them I'm a realtor.” They know I'm a realtor. I'm one of them. What's the big deal? Why is there an ‘us' and ‘them' thing? What do you think, your opinion, you spend a lot of time around realtors and the general public. What has changed the public's perception? Is it any one thing that you can think about or has it just become too easy to be an agent? Is that really what it comes down to?
Pat Hiban:
Yeah, that's kind of what… I think you answered it there. It's just become too easy. There's too many of them. It's always been easy. That's why I got into it. I got a degree in sociology with a 2.3 overall GPA. I couldn't really get a good job and I got into it 'cause it was the path of least… The barrier to entry was low. Even though people were turning me down I eventually got a company actually that specialized in new and part-time agents. That's what they were known for, 95% of the company was part-time. I think that the barrier to entry has been low and it's even lower now with all this being able to do everything online. There's just too many of them. It's sort of like Amway or multilevel marketing in the sense that it's like everybody becomes a potential prospect. Oh God, I have, I can't tell you how many people say, “I have six friends that are real estate agents.”
Tyler Sheff:
Everybody's got a license, right?
Pat Hiban:
Yeah, right. Everybody's got a license.
Tyler Sheff:
Do you see that as one of today's biggest challenges? I know you spend a lot of time coaching and working with agents, or at least your team does. You've got a pretty big team. If there was one thing, one big challenge, the biggest challenge that an agent has these days, whether it be experienced or new, what would you say that is?
Pat Hiban:
I know what it is. It's propensity, there's a huge propensity in agents to become addicted to working buyers instead of working listings. If you look at the agent community and you say, “What do you do more of, selling or listing?” 90 percent are going to say, “Selling. Working with buyers.” Again, it's a barrier of entry. All you need to work with a buyer is a lockbox key. A dog can be a listing agent with a lockbox key in its mouth and wave it in front nowadays, right? Wave it in front of the electronic lockbox and the key comes out. You really don't need somebody to be… With all due respect, I'm an agent, my whole business is agents, but with all due respect you really don't need someone going, “Here's the kitchen. Here's the basement.” You get a brochure that tells you all that stuff and you've probably checked it out online. You've got Zillow, you've got all the… You know more than the realtor really.
For an agent it's a lot easier. There's a lot less rejection. There's a lot less training needed. You kind of can learn just by doing. When you become a listing agent or attempt to be a listing agent it's much more professional, high-pressure, rejection-filled event. Going on a listing appointment and saying why I'm better than these other two agents. It scares a lot of people off, plus the companies, Zillow, Trulia, all these software companies like Boomtown, Commissions Inc., basically provide agents all these leads that they can buy, Realtor.com, that they can buy.
It's very easy just to sit at home and work with buyers where with listings you have to be very proactive. You have to call down, you have to cold call down neighborhoods and just do like the Floyd Wickman type of deal where you're just like, “Have you thought about selling your house now or in the near future? Can I be your agent?” It's a much more aggressive thing, but it's much more worthwhile because you're so much more in control. Therein lies a serious problem where you have very little amount of agents that are starting day one trying to be listing agents and then you have a ton of agents trying to be buyer agents and it creates the haves and have-nots. You have the small percentage of agents that are like oligarchs that everybody knows in their community and they own a huge amount of listings and the average agent has one listing a year.
Tyler Sheff:
That's very true. We hear a lot of that in my market exactly. I hear training programs that are talking about… It seems like they're pushing people to the low-hanging fruit, go out and find a buyer, run all over town with the buyer, but they don't ever build a book of business, so to speak. I guess a lot of the mindset is that if you get a buyer eventually they'll be a seller. Yeah, but how often do the people sell their houses, every 7 years maybe? That's great that you sold them a house now, but you're not going to sell them anything else for quite a while. How are you going to eat next week?
Pat Hiban:
Right. I've had people that listen to my show comment to me like they'll even have situations where their friends or their past clients will be like, “Listen, we will buy a house from you but we're going to list with X, Y, Z 'cause they're famous and they list all the houses in my neighborhood.” They'll lose the listing but their friend will still do them a solid and use them to buy. That happens a lot. Given the choice, I'd rather have the listing than the buyer.
Tyler Sheff:
It seems to me that the biggest listing, and we do a lot of listings, and obviously nowhere near your volume, and I manage the team as well but we do well with listings because we make a big splash. I'm always on the microphone. I'm in front of the camera. We're out in public. Everybody knows who we are, what we do. For the agent that kind of wants to remain obscure or hide in the background, they're going to have a difficult time, wouldn't you agree?
Pat Hiban:
Yeah. Forget about it.
Tyler Sheff:
You might as well just hang it up and be done with it. It seems… I wish they would because we get too many, right? It seems like everybody lately, and I don't know, maybe it's just I'm paying attention more because we're getting ready to offer some realtor-specific training to help realtors understand more of the investment piece. I'm seeing that lately… There's always been tons of real estate investment coaches for the last 15 years, I'd say, but there hasn't been many, at least from my experience it seems, may realtor coaches outside of some of the big ones like Tom Ferry companies like yours, whatnot.
Can you help the audience, 'cause I know a lot of people they want a good referral on finding a coach, finding a mentor. I know a mentor is probably a little different, but any tips that you would have for the audience, people that are listening if they're an agent or if they're getting started as an agent, where to go to find… Is there a program out there that…
Pat Hiban:
That rates coaches.
Tyler Sheff:
Yeah.
Pat Hiban:
No, that would be good. That's a great question. I think generally if you start listening to podcasts like Real Estate Rockstars and there's… I have, let's call them competitors, I probably have like eight of them that have real estate podcasts. They all offer some sort of coaching, or a lot of them offer some sort of coaching. I don't, but it's out there. Coaching, kind of for agents, takes on many forms. Some coaches like Michael Mayer or Joe Stumpf or whatever, they're examples of people that are all about the referral business. How to get referrals, how to keep clients happy, how to refer… It's all about repeat referral.
Other coaches like Tim Harris and Tom Ferry and the Ferry family, they're more about the aggressive …
Tyler Sheff:
Recruitment type thing.
Pat Hiban:
…Recruitment or getting listings and calling out the buyers and closing, closing, closing. They're more about the things that you could be held accountable to. How many calls. They're kind of like Floyd where they're, “How many calls did you make today? How many …” that sort of thing. Getting new business out of thin air. Calling expires, calling FSBOs. You have to decide who you want. I know corporate coaching is more about teams, they coach teams, whole teams of people.
Tyler Sheff:
Right.
Pat Hiban:
You've got to kind of feel them out, listen to a couple of interviews. Certainly if you go to hibandigital.com you can type in ‘coach'. I've had tons of coaches on, I've probably had 30 coaches on and if you just go to the search part, type in ‘coach' somebody's name or any of that stuff it's going to come up.
Tyler Sheff:
Outstanding. You talk about, well actually I know you're linked up with Keller Williams now.
Pat Hiban:
Correct.
Tyler Sheff:
Okay. I'm a big believer in The Millionaire Real estate agent, I've read that book several times. Actually the company I'm an agent for, our broker uses it in one of his training programs as kind of a guideline to help you build out your team and all that. In that book it talks about not hiring help until you're at total max capacity. Would you agree with that mindset or…?
Pat Hiban:
You've got to determine what max capacity is and you've got to determine what… Here's the thing: Real estate business is a consuming business. It's all-consuming. Ideally you would have a situation like I had, which is I started when I was 21 so I was able to max capacity 80 hours a week, I was able to be consumed by it without an assistant. At the end of the day, you're going to have people… I had one gal on my show, Amanda Howard, who has four kids. On some level you're going to not be able to hustle as much as a 20-year-old with no kids if you have four kids or you choose not to work so hard.
I do think that you should be pretty busy before you hire an assistant because I'm a believer of learning something first myself and then hiring it out because when that person quits you don't want to be an idiot, you want to be able to catch up the slack and you also want to be able to keep them accountable and you can't keep them accountable unless you've done it yourself first. It's terrible. It's kind of like… Back in the day we used to have to qualify buyers ourselves. I used to carry around a calculator and qualify the damn buyer, right? I'd be like, the ratios were 28, 36 or whatever, income ratio, I could do it all on my calculator, it was no problem. I'd be like, “You don't qualify. Oh, you qualify for FHA 'cause you went to 41…” or whatever it is.
I used to be able to do that as an agent. Now, they just call and they go, “You've got to call my lender.” They're afraid of making a mistake so they're like, “You've got to call my lender.” It's the same thing. Do it yourself first. Even in that I think you'll be so much better off if you can learn how to qualify people yourself. Do it yourself first, then you can leverage it out. You certainly don't want to leverage it out from day one, but I would say maybe two or three deals a month then start leveraging it out. The first person you want to leverage out to is an executive assistant, basically someone that can be you that sits at a desk and can spit nails so that you can be out on the street. Get you out of the office and have them stay in the office and someone who can be a runner, that can run around and do all the BS because you certainly don't make any money doing $15 an hour stuff by putting up open house signs and filling up brochure boxes with brochures and all that shit. That just doesn't make any sense for an agent to do after a certain amount of time.
Tyler Sheff:
Right. To me it seems like it's that busy work that keeps you away from people and if you're not in front of people, why bother at this point?
Pat Hiban:
Right. Exactly.
Tyler Sheff:
Talking about brokers license, I didn't ask if you're a broker or not, but going back to the old way, being a broker was a status symbol on the… I always laughed when people would go, “You don't have a broker's license?” No, have a broker, why do I need a broker's license?
Pat Hiban:
Yeah, exactly. I do have a broker's license but I don't really use it. I did use it, I have used it. At one point I had my own company and I was a broker. I got licensed in 1987 and I got my broker's license in 1990 and it was more like you said, it was because it was almost like a graduate degree.
Tyler Sheff:
Right.
Pat Hiban:
I wouldn't be able to do it today 'cause it was a grueling amount of work and you had to take a grueling test. I can remember getting it and celebrating it, like I got my broker's license. It was a big deal, but I didn't really use it for another 15 years or so and I was always an associate broker. It was just something to put on the card.
Tyler Sheff:
Right. Another designation that investors can make fun of you for.
Pat Hiban:
Exactly. It's something like I could go on appointments and go, “I'm an associate broker…” and they'd go, “Oh yeah, we're going to work with you rather than somebody else…” which is not true. They don't care.
Tyler Sheff:
Right. It's ridiculous. One of my business cards somewhere it says PhD behind my name and then in small letters it says ‘public high school diploma'. Some people get… I stopped using those cards 'cause some people got really insulted. Some people that have advanced degree they're like, “That's just not right.” I thought it was hilarious.
Pat Hiban:
That's a tough one. Yeah, right. Realtors love designations and we have at my company, Rebus University, every course comes with a designation. You pass the course you get a designation. It may help with the confidence level on some level. I guess everybody likes recognition and designations but at the end of the day I think a seller wants specific things. They want the most money for their house and they want to sell it quick. A buyer wants specific things, they want exactly what they're looking for and they don't want you to waste time, especially investors. Of course, they want you to be able to be available at any time to let them in houses. They want you to be intelligent, to have some level of understanding for investment properties or a neighborhood or luxury homes or whatever it is you're selling. That's probably the most important thing for both sides.
Tyler Sheff:
Exactly. Right. Yeah, bring value. It's not really about the title so much, it's just bring me the value I seek.
Pat Hiban:
Right. Yeah.
Tyler Sheff:
I try to explain that to agents that… In our market here it's like, why do you guys do so much more business than I do? What are you doing differently? I bring the value. I ask the people, number one, why are they selling? How many listing agents do you call and say, “Why are they selling?” I have no idea. Really? You don't know why they're selling? That's interesting. Here's my favorite one, Pat: Almost all of my listing I put the sellers are interested in offering seller financing terms because it attracts more buyers.
Pat Hiban:
Right. Yeah.
Tyler Sheff:
Always, I've done that for years. Sometimes seller financing to the seller means I'll hold a $100 note for 30 years, but it's still seller financing and draws people to the front door, it works well. I just had it last week, an agent calls the receptionist and says, “I think that's illegal and I'm reporting you to the board. You can't do seller financing, it's illegal.” Really? That's interesting. Seller financing is illegal? Huh. I guess they weren't around in the '80s when interest rates were, what were they 20% back then?
Pat Hiban:
Right. yeah. That doesn't make… It's not logical. If a seller, if somebody wants… If I want to loan you money today, “Tyler or Pat can I borrow ten grand…” and I say, “Yeah, 15%…” and you're like, “Okay, cool.”
Tyler Sheff:
Exactly.
Pat Hiban:
We strike that deal, you're allowed to do that in America, last I checked.
Tyler Sheff:
Yeah, right. Lastly… That's a great thing I want to wrap on. Do you feel that all agents should consider investing in real estate? It's been… There are mixed views on that. Some people feel that it's too risky for them, which shocks me if they're in real estate how can it be risky?
Pat Hiban:
Right. They should be selling money market accounts rather than houses.
Tyler Sheff:
Exactly. Be a financial planner, I think it's like a two hour course.
Pat Hiban:
Right.
Tyler Sheff:
You can be certified and make a hundred grand a year. What could go wrong? Do you see any conflicts with an agent being an investor as well, overall?
Pat Hiban:
No, that's asinine. It's stupid. I think that… It's funny, I'll never forget the first brokerage I went to, again I was just starting out in the business. This lady, and again this was a company that was known for part-timers. Whatever reason, she had her license there and she FSBOed her house. The office manager said, “You're going to multiple list that house or you're fired.” She didn't multiple list and he fired her. I thought, damn right. She's a false prophet. How can you go around saying, “I'm an agent…” and FSBO my house? It's false prophecy. I think it's the same thing with any real estate agent who doesn't own their own house. Maybe their financial situation doesn't allow them to own it and I'll give them that, but after a certain amount of years you should own a house or you're a false prophet, you're a hypocrite. You're telling people to buy yet you don't even have a buy. It's hypocrisy.
The same thing… I don't think you should work with investors unless you have investments yourself, 'cause again, you're a hypocrite. Do it yourself. So many people want to get into the game but they don't want to just invest. I see this all the time and I talk to agents all the time. They're looking for something easy, some easy way to be like Robert Kiyosaki. I tell them, I was like, “Dude, do you have a ghetto? Do you have an area where you could drive a little bit and buy a house for really cheap?” I said, “Just do it. Just buy one so you learn the ropes, you know what I mean? Buy a $30,000 row house and rent it out Section 8 for 400 bucks a month but you'll learn a massive amount by doing that rather than sitting there and saying, ‘I can't afford to do it.’” You will learn so much just by starting to just pull the trigger and buy things and then you can call yourself an investor. You have an investment property.
Tyler Sheff:
How amazing would it be that you didn't have to sweat and wait for closing day to come? I take my commissions whenever I can as a promissory note, especially when I sell investment property. I don't want the check at the closing table, I don't need the check at the closing table, I have passive income from my investment. I'm still getting paid on properties that I sold seven, eight, nine years ago because I took my commission as a promissory note recorded against the deed. I wish I could get more people on board with that line of thinking, but I'm only one person in one network.
Pat Hiban:
I'm all about horizontal income, about having lines. I count them. At one point I was close to 60. I had a couple of businesses I invested in that kind of went out of business. I had a couple of things I sold last year. I think I'm down to 52 now. Yeah, I would take that promissory note and consider that a horizontal line. The goal is to build as many horizontal lines as you can. You start out by building one with the Section 8 property you bought for $30,000 with a loan of $26,000 and then add lines, add lines. Set a goal to have 100 horizontal lines and things like promissory notes, whatever, and that's how you create financial freedom in my mind.
Tyler Sheff:
Absolutely. There's no better way to create financial freedom in my opinion, that's just my opinion, though.
Pat, before we wrap up here, what would be the best way for people to reach out to you if they want to look at what you have to offer, listen to your show, things like that?
Pat Hiban:
The show is on, of course iTunes, Stitcher, anywhere. It's called Real Estate Rockstars. You can also type in my name, you can Google me, I'm real easy to find. PatHiban.com is a website that has all of my endeavors on it. Of course RebusUniversity.com is the name of my online sales training for real estate agents. If you go to RebusUniversity.com and you use the coupon code PODCAST it will give you 50% off any program you see on there.
Tyler Sheff:
Nice.
Pat Hiban:
Just use the coupon code PODCAST. You'll see I have eight sales trainings on there now, anywhere from how to list a house to how to build a big team. There's all kinds of great stuff, all from industry experts.
Tyler Sheff:
That's outstanding. Pat, I appreciate you taking the time out of your day. I know you're real busy and I do appreciate you taking the time to come add value to my audience.
Pat Hiban:
My pleasure.
Tyler Sheff:
Ladies and gentlemen, you know that I would not bring somebody on my show if I thought there was anything less than incredible content available on the other end of this episode. Rebus University, 50% off. That's mind blowing, that's a hell of a discount. Head on over to Pat's website, take a look at that information. If you're thinking about becoming an agent or if you already are an agent and you're one of those people that keeps blowing up my Facebook messenger wanting me to teach you how to sell houses, maybe you should head over to Pat's website and sign up for his course, get the 50% off and take your career to the next level.
Thanks for joining us this week. We appreciate you coming out. If you're not a member of our Facebook group go over to CashFlowGuys.com/Group. If you have not joined our mailing list, you need to be. CashFlowGuys.com /Register. Have a great week and we will catch you next time.